‘We Had … Struggles’: ‘Five Love Languages’ Creator’s Own Love Story

Gary and Karolyn Chapman’s marriage almost didn’t outlast the “honeymoon phase.” But God showed Gary a new way for couples to express their love for each other—transforming not only their marriage, but those of others as well.

Gary’s best-selling book “The Five Love Languages” has sold tens of millions of copies worldwide, and helped couples better communicate their love to one another. Hear Gary’s story and how he uses these “languages” to counsel struggling couples—including those in the U.S. military—on this episode of GPS: God. People. Stories.

You can connect with us through email at gps@billygraham.org or on Billy Graham Radio on Facebook. 

Transcript

MUSIC STARTS

Gary Chapman:
00:00:00 I remember when I said to God, “I’ve done everything I know to do. It’s not working. We don’t agree on anything. I don’t have any love feelings for her, and I don’t know what else to do.”

Jim Kirkland: God showed Gary Chapman what to do about the struggles he and his wife, Karolyn, were having. And then Gary went on to write a bestselling book about it: The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts.

You’ll hear how love and joy were restored to Gary and Karolyn’s marriage—and other couples’ marriages, as well—here on this episode of GPS: God. People. Stories. It’s an outreach of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. I’m Jim Kirkland.

We spoke with Gary Chapman at the Billy Graham Training Center at The Cove in Asheville, North Carolina. He was there leading a marriage seminar for military couples. The Fourth of July is a fine time to remember the men and women who serve our country through the U.S. military. And you’re going to hear a word from Billy Graham about the birth of our nation 248 years ago.

Billy Graham: 
00:01:04 The men who signed the Declaration of Independence were moved by a magnificent dream. In no other nation’s founding document can be found so many declarations of allegiance to God.

Jim: You’ll hear more insight from Billy Graham on how your faith in Jesus Christ can help make this nation a better place—that’s coming up a little later. If you’ve got questions about what it means to place your faith in Jesus Christ, or how to go deeper in your faith in Jesus, we’ve got you covered. Visit us at FindPeaceWithGod.net. That’s FindPeaceWithGod.net.

Intro: GPS: God. People. Stories.

MUSIC TRANSITION

Jim: Gary Chapman grew up in the small textile town of China Grove, North Carolina. He was raised in church, where he accepted Christ at the age of 10—and it’s also where he met his wife.

Gary:
00:02:02 I have known my wife as long as I can remember because we grew up in the same church, but in high school I dated her best girlfriend.

Jim: At the time, Gary was very active in church, helping with the youth group. By the time he was 17, he sensed God calling him into full-time ministry. He believed he had two career options: to be a pastor or a missionary.

Gary:
00:02:25 In my mind, at that age, missionaries worked in the jungle, and I didn’t like snakes, so I thought I probably should be a pastor.

Jim: So that’s what Gary did. After high school, he headed to Chicago and Moody Bible Institute to take a three-year pastors course. While there, he received a Dear John letter from his high school girlfriend suggesting the long-distance couple go their separate ways. 

Gary:
00:02:50 I was brokenhearted because I was in love with her, and I didn’t date anybody for a couple of years. But then I was at home for an Easter, I think, and I saw Karolyn at church, and I thought, “Wow, how did I miss her?” So, after church I had a conversation with her.

Jim: Gary found out how God had been working in Karolyn’s life and the two started writing letters to each other. They dated for two years and then in 1961 they were married.

Gary:
00:03:15 We had lots of struggles in the early years of our marriage. We were both Christians; we both believed God was leading us to the mission field. We were dedicated to God, but we didn’t have any premarital counseling.

Jim: And no one had told Gary that the average lifespan of the love experience is just two years before that emotional high wears off.

Gary:
00:03:35 I came down off the high pretty soon after the honeymoon. Conflicts came and we didn’t know how to solve conflicts because when you’re in love, you don’t think you’ll have any, and we ended up arguing because I knew I was right and she knew she was right and we ended up yelling at each other. And then not only did I lose those positive feelings, then I had negative emotions toward her.

Jim: This was all happening as Gary was in seminary. So, he was studying to become a pastor and he was also trying to make sense of what was going on in his marriage. 

Gary:
00:04:06 I remember the thoughts running through my mind of: God, what’s the deal here? I mean, I prayed and asked You don’t let me marry her if it’s not the right one and we’re not getting along.

Jim: After a year of struggling in their marriage, Gary became desperate for God’s help. 

Gary:
00:04:24 I remember when I said to God, “I’ve done everything I know to do. It’s not working. We don’t agree on anything. I don’t have any love feelings for her, and I don’t know what else to do.”

Jim: Right after he prayed, Gary envisioned Jesus washing the feet of His disciples. 

Gary:
00:04:41 I heard God say to me, That’s the problem in your marriage. You do not have the attitude of Christ towards your wife.

Jim: The message hit Gary like a ton of bricks. 

Gary:
00:04:53 I wept and I said, God, forgive me. With all of my study and theology, I’ve missed the whole point. And I said, Please give me the attitude of Christ, which is demonstrated in Philippians chapter two when he says have this attitude in you, which was in Christ Jesus, who, though He was God, He did not demand His rights as God, but He humbled Himself and became a man. And once He got on level ground with us, He stepped down further to death on a cross. In retrospect, it’s the greatest prayer I ever prayed about my marriage because God changed my heart and gave me a desire to serve her.

Jim: But their marriage didn’t completely turn around overnight. They both had to intentionally and repeatedly adopt the servant attitude of Christ. 

Gary:
00:05:39 That’s the secret—and I believe it’s the heart of every, not just marriage, but every close relationship. If we have the attitude of Christ toward the people that we encounter, and we’re finding out how we can minister to them, how we can serve them, chances are, they’re going to reciprocate. You know, the Bible says we love God ’cause He first loved us. We didn’t start this relationship. He started it.

Jim: With that in mind, Gary began to consistently ask his wife three simple questions—and those questions ushered in a positive change.

Gary:
00:06:11 Question number one: Honey, what can I do to help you? Question number two: How can I make your life easier? Question number three: How could I be a better husband? And when I was willing to ask those questions, she was willing to give me answers.

Jim: Within three months, Karolyn started to ask Gary those same questions. 

Gary:
00:06:30 When she started reaching out to me, the love feelings came back. Not the euphoric stage of in love, but that deep need that she loves me; she really cares about me; she wants the best for me. In the Bible, love doesn’t start with a feeling. It starts with an attitude—and it’s the attitude of Christ. And if we do that, it will touch them emotionally; and then if they do that to us, it’ll touch us emotionally. 

Jim: Previously, Gary had been using words to communicate his love to Karolyn, because that’s what made him feel loved, but it wasn’t getting through to her. 

Gary:
00:07:03 One day she said to me, You know, you keep on saying, “I love you.” If you love me, why don’t you help me? And I said, What do you mean? She said, Well, you don’t ever offer to wash dishes or vacuum floors or clean the toilet. I mean you don’t offer to do anything.

Jim: Gary had expected her to do those things because he had grown up in a household where his mother did all those things. 

Gary:
00:07:24 I like to say to guys, Hey, you’re not married to your mama. But looking back on it, she was telling me her love language. It was acts of service. And, she was trying to help me learn how to express love to her.

Jim: Fast-forward to his days of pastoring and marriage counseling—and Gary noticed a trend. There seemed to be common love languages among couples—five of them to be exact and we’re going to tell you what they are in a moment. 

Gary:
00:07:51 People have asked me, Where did I come up with the five love languages? It was not a revelation in the middle of the night. It came out of years of counseling people. I realized a number of years ago that what made one person feel loved doesn’t make another person feel loved. 

Jim: Gary remembers one couple in particular who came to his office for marital help. They had been married for 30 years. 

Gary:
00:08:15 The wife said, Dr. Chapman, before we start, let me tell you a little bit about us. We don’t argue; we don’t have any money problems, and she went on with two or three more positive things. And I was beginning to wonder, Did they come in here to tell me what a good marriage they have? [chuckle] But then she said, But the problem is I just don’t feel any love coming from him. We’re like two roommates living in the same house. He does his thing; I do my thing.

Jim: The wife claimed that she felt empty and wasn’t sure how long she could continue their marriage.

Gary:
00:08:44 Well, I looked at her husband and he said, I don’t understand her. I do everything I can to show her that I love her. And she sits there and tells you what she’s been telling me: She doesn’t feel loved. I said, Well, what do you do to show your love to her? He said, Well, I get home from work before she does. I start the evening meal. Sometimes I actually have it ready when she gets home. If not, she’ll help me. And then I wash the dishes. And every Thursday night I vacuum the floors, and on Saturday I wash the car, I mow the grass, I help her with her laundry, and he went on and I was beginning to wonder, What does this woman do? [chuckle]

Jim: It sounded to Gary like the husband was doing everything. 

Gary:
00:09:24 He said, I don’t know what else I can do. I looked back at her, and she started crying and she said, He’s right. He’s a hardworking man, but we don’t ever talk. We haven’t talked in 20 years. She said, He’s always mowing the grass, washing the dishes, he’s vacuuming the floors. [chuckle] And I realized here was a sincere husband who was doing everything he knew to do to show his wife that he loves her and a wife who didn’t get it emotionally. 

Jim: Gary continued to hear similar stories over and over again.

Gary:
00:09:53 I knew there had to be a pattern to what I was hearing, but I had no idea what it was. So eventually I took time to sit down and read several years of notes that I made when I was counseling and asked myself the question: When someone said, ‘I feel like my spouse doesn’t love me,’ what did they want? What were they complaining about? 

Jim: Their answers fell into five categories—words of affirmation, quality time, physical touch, acts of service, and receiving gifts. These are what Gary would later call the five love languages. He started using them in his counseling. 

Gary:
00:10:34 If you want her to feel loved, you’ve got to learn how to express love in her language. If you want him to feel loved, you got to learn to speak his love language. And I would help couples discover their love language, challenge ’em to go home and try it. And sometimes they would come back in three weeks and say, This is changing everything.

Jim: Gary used the concept with his counseling for at least five years before writing the book, which was actually his third published title. 

Gary:
00:10:59 I thought if I could put this concept in a book and leave out psychological terms that people would not understand, just write it in the language of the common person, maybe I could help a lot of couples I would never have time to see in my office. 

Jim: Little did Gary know that the book, which was published in 1992, would sell over 20 million copies and be published in 60 languages. 

Gary:
00:11:22 It demonstrates what all of us know, that one of our deepest emotional needs is the need to feel loved by the significant people in our lives.

Jim: Since then, Gary has written multiple spinoff love language books, including ones for teenagers, children, and even the military—which you’ll hear more about that one a little later. And Gary’s books haven’t just stayed in the United States.

Gary:
00:11:46 Other publishers in other countries started publishing them. And they always send us copies, and we pray over the country and pray God will use it. And one night I was opening up a box of books and I looked on the couch and my wife was crying, and I said, Karolyn, what’s wrong?

Jim: Nothing was wrong. Karolyn was crying happy tears over God’s faithfulness. You see, years earlier, she and Gary had felt called to go to Nigeria to be missionaries but they were denied because of a health issue.

Gary:
00:12:16 She said, I just remember we wanted to be missionaries and now your books are all over the world. And that’s when I thought, OK, God, I get it. I didn’t get it back then, but I get it now. You know, God’s plans are not always our plans, but they’re always better than our plans and often much bigger than our plans.

Jim: By giving up his plans, Gary has seen God repeatedly change more lives than he ever could have in his own power.

Gary:
00:12:45 What’s been so encouraging to me is to see how God has used this simple concept to turn marriages around. I do Saturday marriage conferences all over the country. Virtually, every time I give a conference, I’ll have half a dozen people come up and say, We just want to share with you that that book saved our marriage. Fifteen years ago, we were at the end of the road. We thought there was no hope, and somebody gave us that book and the lights came on and we realized how we’d been missing each other emotionally, and we took the quiz, and we learned each other’s language, and we started speaking it, and the love came back, the emotions came back, and it literally saved our marriage.

Jim: More than 137 million people have taken that love language quiz that Gary mentioned. It’s free and you can find it at 5lovelanguages.com. That’s 5lovelanguages.com. He says it helps couples learn how best to make each other feel loved.

Gary:
00:13:44 You give heavy doses of the primary love language, but you also speak the other four for extra credit. All of them are going to count, but if you don’t speak the primary language, the others will not make it. You’ll be sincerely speaking the others, but they won’t feel it.

Jim: Looking back, Gary is so grateful that he cried out to God all those years ago to save his own marriage—and he truly believes there’s hope for restoration in relationships.

Gary: 
00:14:08 Christ died for us when we were sinners, not when we were lovely people loving Him. I think if we can get that concept down, there’s always hope for a marriage when just one person is willing to be God’s instrument in loving that person in a meaningful way.

MUSIC TRANSITION

Jim: Gary Chapman has spent decades helping people restore relationships with others and restore their relationship with God through His Son, Jesus Christ. You can learn more about beginning a relationship with God right now by going to our website: FindPeaceWithGod.net. That’s FindPeaceWithGod.net.

In just a moment, you’ll hear Gary Chapman offer some guidance for the unique challenges faced by military couples.

Voice-over: You’re listening to GPS: God. People. Stories., a podcast production of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

Billy Graham: 
00:15:15 The men who signed the Declaration of Independence were moved by a magnificent dream and this dream was rooted in this Book we call the Bible. 

Voice-over: Billy Graham …

Billy Graham:
00:15:27 In no other nation’s founding document can be found so many declarations of allegiance to God. There were flaws, yes, but what they produced was the beginning of something that was to give the world new hope. I believe that every problem facing us today as Americans is basically a spiritual problem. Crime is a spiritual problem. Inflation is a spiritual problem. Social injustice is a spiritual problem. You who are listening to me today are asking the question: What can I as an individual do? I want to do something, but what? Receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and your Savior. You could become a new person by surrendering your life to Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. And when you make that decision, it is America, through you, making its decision to put God first and Christ first. It could change your life, your home, and our nation.

Jim: If you’d like to know more about making the life-changing decision to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of your life, visit us online at FindPeaceWithGod.net. That address again: FindPeaceWithGod.net.

Our guest on this episode of GPS: God. People. Stories. is Gary Chapman. Two years ago, he resigned as pastor of Calvary Baptist in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, where had served for 50 years. Gary continues to counsel and speak at conferences and he often talks to military service members and their spouses. He even has a special edition of The 5 Love Languages book for them. It’s titled The 5 Love Languages Military Edition.

Gary:
00:17:14 Military lifestyle can be difficult. So, I would say to a military wife or husband that’s struggling in their marriage: This concept can be the starting point for really changing your marriage—and even if your spouse is not willing to read the book and they don’t want to talk about your marriage—if you read it, you get the concept. You learn their love language and with God’s help, you start speaking their love language. There are very few people that will not eventually begin to melt when you’re speaking their love language. They know they don’t deserve the way you’re treating them. You’re treating them with love.

Jim: Gary’s collected a lot of ideas on how spouses can express the love languages even through deployments.

Gary:
00:17:55 For example, a lady said, I knew my husband’s language was physical touch. So, while he was deployed, I traced my hand on a sheet of paper and mailed it to him with a note that said, Put your hand on my hand. I want to hold your hand. He told me later, Gary, when I put my hand on that paper, I felt her. 

And then a guy, he said, my wife’s language is physical touch. So before I left I said, Honey, I’m going to leave this jean jacket here. Anytime you want to hug, you put it on and I’ll hug you. And she said, Gary, every time I put it on, I felt his arms around me. 

Jim: We’re thankful for Gary Chapman joining us on this episode and for everything that he does for people’s marriages—civilian and military. And if you are in the military or are a vet, we want to thank you for your service to our country. From all of us here at GPS, happy Fourth of July. And don’t forget to subscribe to GPS to listen to our next episode, which will be out in two weeks.

A reminder that we spoke with Gary Chapman while he was leading a marriage retreat for military couples at the Billy Graham Training Center at The Cove. It’s in the mountains of western North Carolina near Asheville and you can learn more about all of their events by going to TheCove.org. That’s TheCove.org.

I’m Jim Kirkland. You are listening to GPS. God. People. Stories. It’s an outreach of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association—Always Good News.

CLOSING MUSIC

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